"You don't wanna just walk in and say, okay, here's your new program, now implement it. You gotta figure out, does it work? Why is it working other places? Why isn't it working here?" - David Leff, VP and Board Member at Sustainable Ohio OK everyone, this one cuts right to the heart of what’s broken in how we approach safety, and how to fix it. In this episode of The Canary Report: Safety & Risk Management, I sit down with David Leff, VP and Board Member at Sustainable Ohio, and a 25-year veteran in insurance and risk management. David challenges the idea that safety starts and ends with compliance and shares what he’s learned leading risk programmes across 77 international facilities, in 11 countries, for a 15,000 head count, and why the most effective safety systems are built on understanding why the rules exist, not just enforcing them. We dig into data-driven site assessments, high-risk roles like forklift operations, and how real ownership beats fear-based training every time. This conversation is about moving past compliance theatre and building safety programmes that protect people, perform at scale, and stand up to real-world pressure.